Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 15:40:28 GMT -5
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vinnie
Burning Bridges
Fesenmeier Beer brings you Good Cheer!
Posts: 113
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Post by vinnie on Dec 3, 2010 16:50:43 GMT -5
I miss him...Bummed that I never went to see him live.
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Post by MotorheadBob on Dec 28, 2010 13:11:43 GMT -5
Can't argue with him. I've been saying the same thing. The reason we have crime: politicians want crime. The reason our schools suck: politicians want them to suck. We could go on and on and on. Please don't get this confused with the way I feel about our military. The folks in the military are regular Joes just like us, trying to get by. Just because I wave the flag doesn't mean I like our government. The flag represents ALL OF US, YOU AND I.
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Post by Bob Ill on Jan 3, 2011 14:03:11 GMT -5
Can't argue with him. I've been saying the same thing. The reason we have crime: politicians want crime. The reason our schools suck: politicians want them to suck. We could go on and on and on. Please don't get this confused with the way I feel about our military. The folks in the military are regular Joes just like us, trying to get by. Just because I wave the flag doesn't mean I like our government. The flag represents ALL OF US, YOU AND I. .....Look, MHB, I know I can never change your mind on this topic, but other people might read your post so I have to say: The US flag represents the government; it has stars and stripes representing the original and current states - government entities. People own property; governments create states, borders, flags. If folks in the US military are "regular Joes", then folks in the Gestapo, SS, Stasi, Communist Party, Luftwaffe, KGB, Taliban, Soviet military, North Korean army, etc. are also. Since they are, instead, enforcers of the policies of their unjust rulers, they are not innocent of wrongdoing. US military personnel have unjustly invaded at least three countries recently. It was established at Nuremberg that "just following orders" does not excuse murder. I like living in the area of north america known popularly as "Texas". I can't readily think of a better place for me to live, BUT, I have many complaints about how it is ruled, just as I do with the USA. There is a Texas flag, also, and I don't worship it, either. Flags denote collectivity rather than individuality and I am an individualist.I may join a voluntary group, such as this chat board, but I reject all connection with coerced involuntary groups. Soldiers joined the army; they are fully responsible for their wrongdoings.
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Post by MotorheadBob on Jan 4, 2011 10:05:21 GMT -5
Hey Bob, I think we can agree to disagree. Maybe it's because I served in the military, that I respect the nations flag. I fly two flags daily at my house, the stars & stripes and P.O.W. flag. I am honoring those that serve this country. Well, it is the military that keeps you free. If not for them, you might be in the Soviet Military now or some Gulag. Rember, there is always someone who wants to take away what you have. It could be Mexico, it could be Oklahoma for that matter. We have military to protect us. I guess you can view it anyway you want, but, that's how I look at it. I totally understand your views, that's what makes our country great. We CAN have differing views. I'm not that dumb to think that everything is great and just because I vote, that those I vote for are going to do everything they said they would. I know there is a higher authority (than the gov't) running this country (and the world no doubt), but I just believe I can make a difference in some policies (I hope). I use to be a democrat, believing they were the party of the people. I no longer believe that. The republicans have always been about big buisness. I am an Independent, I choose who I want to vote for, I criticize the right and the left. I am for smaller gov't, I do believe in free speach, the right to bear arms and the right to live life as best I can. But, I also believe we need a gov't to LEAD us. Not regulate us. But to lead us. When the gov't steps beyound it's authority, we the people have a right to protest. The problem as I see it, is we accept too many of the rules and regulations that are opposed upon us. We accept them as being for our own good. I don't know, we both can go on and on and on...but what the hell, what else have we to do?
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Post by sonofabelch on Jan 8, 2011 10:55:31 GMT -5
Actually Bob, the people in those armies you mentioned were and are, for the most part, regular joes.
Much like any other army, you have a minority that are full fledged into it for the cause, and the rest are people that are whipped up into a frenzy and fall for the organized efforts to recruit them into a certain mindset, which then molds their thinking toward a certain goal- this one being designed to make them think that joining their country's armed forces is patriotic.
I contend that there is little difference between the people's of the various armies, in the general sense of course. Armies have generally followed a basic mold of commanders/ subordinates throughout history. Varying tactics and weaponry has defined some as innovative and have progressed warfare over time, but you still have the basic model being the norm.
Governments raise armies to protect their interests, and also to project them. Usually, the world is left to judge whether a government was justified in their actions after using military power in some fashion. This is where many contentions are raised and the arguments get heated.
Every ruler has justified their projection of military power as correct. Rarely will a ruling body admit wrongdoing. The world is left to argue the merits of military actions.
This does not affect the point that in almost every case of military projection, the regular masses of military membership felt that their participation was justified in some way. It's all a matter of perception really. The "we're the good guys, fighting on the side of justice" syndrome is one of the most common rallies heard throughout history, and it prevails in every military body. You can read testimonies from individuals throughout history and the theme is the same: we were on the right side, fighting the good fight.
You will also see some who realized differently and later admitted as much, but these testimonies are the minority as a whole.
Human nature allows for masses of people to be herded into such armies and then used for the common "good". We don't like to think of ourselves as being so easily duped, but the evidence is overwhelming.
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Post by MotorheadBob on Jan 8, 2011 21:30:29 GMT -5
What you say is very true. I can't argue that. Here is my story: I joined the Army in 1982 after losing my job in the mill (Reganomics). After being out of work for 6 months and unemployment benefits nearly exhausted (married two kids), I enlisted. This would have been unthinkable for me just a year earlier. I was just as much and "antiestablishment" type person as anyone else on this chat room. Being a Vet and being around Vets (many who have serious injuries) and knowing Vets who lost close friends in combat, just gave me a different sense of Patriotism than I had before. I can't explain it, it's just there. I found myself, trying to do my part instead of having someone else do it and me living off of their labor. That's why I'm in ABATE (motorcycle rights organization), if I'm going to ride a bike, I should fight for the rights of all motorcyclists. Not just enjoy what someone else did for me. Because there is always a politician that wants to take my rights away. I don't know if I can explain this any better than I've done. I owe it to the Vets! There's a saying in the biker world that goes "if I have to explain why I ride, you'll never understand". Same goes for Patriotism.
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Post by sonofabelch on Jan 9, 2011 9:33:44 GMT -5
What you say is very true. I can't argue that. Here is my story: I joined the Army in 1982 after losing my job in the mill (Reganomics). After being out of work for 6 months and unemployment benefits nearly exhausted (married two kids), I enlisted. This would have been unthinkable for me just a year earlier. I was just as much and "antiestablishment" type person as anyone else on this chat room. Being a Vet and being around Vets (many who have serious injuries) and knowing Vets who lost close friends in combat, just gave me a different sense of Patriotism than I had before. I can't explain it, it's just there. I found myself, trying to do my part instead of having someone else do it and me living off of their labor. That's why I'm in ABATE (motorcycle rights organization), if I'm going to ride a bike, I should fight for the rights of all motorcyclists. Not just enjoy what someone else did for me. Because there is always a politician that wants to take my rights away. I don't know if I can explain this any better than I've done. I owe it to the Vets! There's a saying in the biker world that goes "if I have to explain why I ride, you'll never understand". Same goes for Patriotism. I understand completely my friend. I came in in 1987. A year later we jumped into Honduras to push Ortega's Sandinistas back into Nicaragua. About a year and a half later I jumped into Panama to dispose of Noriega. After that it was another ten years or so with the army then I'd had enough and got out. I bounced around for about three years and came back in for another ten, and in 03-04 ended up doing my part in the great global meltdown in Afghanistan. I completely understand the bond between veterans as I am one, several times over. I also have come to understand the lies, deceit, corruption, and absolute insanity of modern warfare and those "leaders" that employ it. More importantly, I've come to understand the motives and let's just say I'm less than impressed. I raise my glass to any vet and certainly challenge them to further understand the bigger picture which surrounds their service. Aside from all of that, I also ride (or more accurately- I ride when I can next afford another bike lol) and understand bikers. I hold the same passions also with guns and guitars. My deal is not against veterans, but those that make them veterans.
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Post by MotorheadBob on Jan 10, 2011 11:18:44 GMT -5
Amen to that brother. I thank you for your years of service. I was lucky not to have seen combat, but was ready if needed. One of the most famous sayings is: "I love my country, but fear my government". Throughout the history of man, gov't has done what it wants and uses the people. This country is no different than any other. But, we do have freedoms here. And we have to guard them. I know there are folks on this board that don't vote because of one reason or another, but that's just what our politcians want. APPITHY. If we don't care, they win! Our freedoms will disappear, our rights. Then it won't matter where we live. 'Cause once we give it away... Hope you get a bike soon and get back on the road.
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Post by sonofabelch on Jan 11, 2011 9:24:32 GMT -5
I stopped voting in national elections basically because votes don't decide elections, politically appointed judges do. You don't have to look very hard to see that any election is "too close" to call and it falls on judges to decide the outcome. The system, once heralded as the model of freedom around the world, is now broken and replaced with something that doesn't resemble the old "he with the most votes wins" system. In the latest elections, a few states simply failed to send out absentee ballots "in time" and, in front of the country, declared that those votes would not be counted. That little act wiped out the intentions of literally thousands of voters who, in my opinion, should have had first priority in votes. Aside from that, you can't disregard the hundreds of other cases where outright election fraud prevails right there in front of our faces, to include voter intimidation, voter fraud, votes counted from dead people, etc. Simply put, our votes don't count worth a shit, and there's little to no recourse when they employ these unlawful acts. If you have enough money to burn, you can try to bring a lawsuit but who exactly will decide those cases? That's right, the same politically appointed judges who will rule in favor of the highest bidder in the first place. That tells me the system is no longer viable. So yeah, we can vote, but who gives a damn about that vote? If there's enough votes against the current agenda, those votes are swept away right in front of our faces and we're left with nothing but the smell of burnt Vaseline from where they fucked us in the ass once again. No thanks. I prefer to let them play their games and prepare myself for the coming meltdowns that are sure to come
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 11:16:22 GMT -5
yes .... stock pile ammo, fire wood, food, gas,oil, weed, beer,medicine, generators, vechiles that can be made to run, guns, land, romex cable etc etc. save everything you have. when the above mentioned melt down occurs anything and everything will have value except money.
go out and buy black powder weapons and gun powder and lead and a slug press. then buy up all the firing caps you can find. learn how to make gun powder too.
dig bunkers. they have many uses. put them way back out of site.
these are the things that will sustain life in the end.
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Post by MotorheadBob on Jan 11, 2011 12:19:27 GMT -5
I can't argue against that. But, I still have faith that we can get past this before it's too late. I hope. I do fear a revolution/meltdown is coming though. But, we can't give up!
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